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Topic: slippy floor with polysorbate  (Read 2542 times)
andoy
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2015, 06:21:01 PM »

you could then experiment adding a bit of alcohol and see how it affects it. It might detestableise it or it might not, but the alcohol may help reduce oil residue I think.

now after you've done all that, don't you think it's easier to grow some plants and distil EOs yourself, then you'll have hydrosols to play with?!   Whipping Owl
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andoy
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2015, 06:33:14 PM »

if you don't have Glyceryl Stearate how about using whatever bog standard emulsifier you normally use (Easimulse that Helen sells would be ideal)... Heat water, sprinkle emulsifier and wait to melt. stick blend, then add EO and stick blend for a while. That might even work... I'm going to try it now  :mwaha:
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Iulia
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2015, 06:37:05 PM »

I have no garden  Grin
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Iulia
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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2015, 06:38:08 PM »

I have a feeling her sprays were some kind of alcohol and EO only.

I didn't recognise the way she listed the alcohol, but I thought you said you recognised the smell.

She has 30% eo in them
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andoy
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2015, 06:46:35 PM »

I think denatured alcohol (ethanol/isoproylene blend) or MPG (monopropyl glycol which is used to dilute thick EOs or those airfreshner wick things)?
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andoy
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2015, 07:13:51 PM »


here you go... very thin emulsified lemongrass EO in water

about 120g water (some would have evaporated)
1g Easimulse
2.5ml Lemongrass EO

in warm milky looking format that I have to keep reminding myself not to drink

you can try adding a bit of alcohol and thickening it a bit to ensure it wil be a bit more stable
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Iulia
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2015, 09:21:38 PM »

I think denatured alcohol (ethanol/isoproylene blend) or MPG (monopropyl glycol which is used to dilute thick EOs or those airfreshner wick things)?

not sure - I thought it was de-natured, but I remember you said the smell was familiar? SK say on their page that DN alcohol isn't suitable as a base for room sprays (flammability? perhaps as perfume is alcohol based its't it?)

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Iulia
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2015, 09:23:06 PM »


in warm milky looking format that I have to keep reminding myself not to drink


 :mwaha:

interesting experiment. How was the feel if it? Was it sticky like PS?
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squeakyclean
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2015, 09:24:58 PM »

Wow, this thread took a very interesting turn whilst I was at work  Grin You've given me a lot to ponder, thanks

I've been considering the alcohol route today, as it happens. I dismissed it originally because I was under the impression that you needed a license but I've since come across Formulators alcohol, does that need a license, does anyone know?

Whilst at work today, I did a bit of experimenting myself with the room sprays. I had been using about 8% polysorbate, together with 2% glyerine, so I decided to strip it back as much as possible. I decided to try capryl glucoside at 4% instead of the polysorbate and ditched the glycerine completely and I'm pleased to say it seemed much better. The droplets seemed less weighty if that makes sense, so it didn't just fall straight to the ground as before and seemed to hang in the air longer iykwim. I might have a closer inspection of it tomorrow, testing it on fabric and different materials and see what happens but I'm just happy with the fact that the floor didn't feel slippy like it did with the last stuff. So I guess what I can conclude from that is to keep it as simple as possible, as I had double the amount of gloopy (sorry not very technical I know) stuff in it before.

Bit envious of your hydrosol (and EO) production though Andoy Smiley I have been using some hydrosols in my spray but only in small amounts due to the cost of them.  
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andoy
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2015, 09:50:37 PM »

Alcohol is used in quite a few products, but Yes you do need to keep it away from flames, lit candles and smokers  if you put too much :mwaha:

I don't know what the legalities are with respect to how much you use. I imagine you don't need more than a couple percent if you use min amount of emulsifier.

Basically if you keep the amount of emulsifier down to minimum. About 1/4 of EO should be enough and if you use a better emulsifier with correct HLB (polysorbate on its own is probably not the best for this). Any emulsifier you use will contribute to oilyness of your water based spray as all of them are waxy/oily. So only as much as you need and incorporate it well with good heating/mixing.

The EO will also contribute to oilyness too depending on which one you use.

I would also add a preservative btw
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andoy
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2015, 10:16:55 PM »

capryl glucoside is basically a mild surfactant (detergent) btw. Surfactants are often used like/as emulsifier because the have oil and water attracting heads that pull water and oil from each end. It's a bit like adding fairly liquid to you spray. they don't tend to be too waxy/slippy, but effectively they will leave something like a trace of soap which might be better residue. I'm not sure how stable they are longer term.
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squeakyclean
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2015, 10:24:53 PM »

Umm yeah it might affect the scent in the long run, something else for me to monitor I guess. Nothings ever straight forward is it Wink
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andoy
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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2015, 10:39:29 PM »

I don't think it will affect the scent (unless you get unwanted growth even then most will not smell), but you need to think about shelf life and stability... who knows you might start selling these in the shops and the last thing you want is for people to be spraying bacteria/mould/fungus around or the product to separate and look very unsightly.

I don't know why hydrosols are expensive. I guess it's mainly the cost of transporting them and problems preserving them. There isn't a large demand for them and many people who would want to buy them (skin care crafters) don't want the word preservative or paraben on them. Not much EO is produced in this country, so it's a bit like sending bottled water around the world.
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squeakyclean
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2015, 10:56:02 PM »

I've been using a preservative (Geoguard), so they should be ok in terms of shelf life.

Hydrosols are used a lot in Aromatherapy and Herbal Medicine practice, which is why I've got them in stock, I prescribe them to patients. I buy them straight from herbal suppliers in the UK but like I say they're a bit pricey, so it feels a bit extravagant using them for room sprays.
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andoy
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« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2015, 09:22:13 AM »

my little experiment yesterday has actually thickened quite a bit even without a thickening agent. It actually makes a nice light lotion. I don't know how it would work as a spray. I haven't got a sprayer bottle to hand. It might work well as wood polish/shine as it is  :mwaha:

you can make a sort of tea or infussion if you use dried or even fresh botanicals. mash them up heat them and strain. I have been doing that with my geraniums. Jasmin tea is actually Sambac flowers mixed in tea blend (you can probably buy dried flowers on their own). Chamomile tea and Lavender teas are along same line and easy enough to obtain. Scent will be a bit more subtle, but sometimes less is more.

You can also use alcohol to extract a bit more, but choose an alcohol that doesn't have too strong smell that you'll be fighting against. This is in effect how they extract some essential oils that are more volatile. Basically the alcohol acts as a solvent to break up the botanical. In essential oil extraction it is cooked continuously (botanicals are held in strainer and alcohol trickles thru it in sohxlet reactor) and in the final stage the alcohol is evaporated out. You basically don't need to cook out the alcohol, you just strain out the botanical after letting it sit for a while. The alcohol with your botanical scent will be self preserving until you dilute it in water.
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