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Topic: slippy floor with polysorbate  (Read 3030 times)
squeakyclean
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« on: March 01, 2015, 11:03:23 AM »

Anyone else experienced this? I have been experimenting with polysorbate in my room sprays and I've been noticing recently that the floors are getting treacherously slippy. I have laminate flooring throughout and inevitably the room spray mists the air then settles on the floor leaving it slippery. I'm not selling it yet but obviously don't want to be selling something that could lead to an accident! I'm going to try reduce the polysorbate, (currently using at 8%) and if I can't find a workable level, maybe I'll just leave it out altogether, better that the customer has to shake the bottle, than risk breaking a hip Wink but just wondering if anyone else had problems with this?
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Iulia
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 11:11:50 AM »

interesting - I've been playing around with room sprays but have carpet, tiles and vinyl, so haven't noticed. But certainly worth thinking about.
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Iulia
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 03:54:40 PM »

well I sprayed one of mine - in fairness fairly close to the floor - and it did go into a fairly sticky glop on the floor.

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Helen
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 06:11:15 PM »

What an interesting observation.  I hadn't heard anyone mention this before but I wonder if all would notice if they have carpets as opposed to laminate flooring.  You are right to be cautious though  :buttrf:
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squeakyclean
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2015, 06:41:01 PM »

Yeah if people have carpets its a none issue but laminate is becoming increasingly popular, so I guess its best to try and cater for all eventualities. Funnily enough, its only when I'm wearing certain shoes that I notice the slippiness but now I know its a problem, I can't just dismiss it. I have tried searching the net for others who have encountered this problem but can find no mention of it but it must be the polysorbate thats causing it, so I'll have to work on it.
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madpiano
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 11:14:52 AM »

Would it make sense to make room sprays with oil free fragrances? I am not keen on spraying my furniture with oil based things, really. And Room Fresheners like Febreeze seem to be water based.
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Iulia
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 11:33:01 AM »

I was using essential oils and water, the polysorbate was to disperse the EO.

Perhaps one can do without?

I've seen alcohol used as the base rather than water.

Indeed if its leaving a residue on laminate it isn't a good product, regardless of if it isn't so visible on carpet, I agree with MP, I wouldn't want it there or on the furniture

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andoy
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 12:12:05 PM »

I know with LS I can dilute FO into them without problems, but EO need to be done with care because they are not water soluble. Perhaps products like Frebreeze use FO that are part alcohol and thus more water soluble? Things like vodka are about 40% ethanol and the rest mainly water and that is the sort of thing many people use for DIY perfume. Quite expensive option for a room spray.

EO are mix of terpenes (sort of resin) and various other compounds that can leave a residue. So a mainly water based product will be an issue. I'm looking at doing hydrosols as clothes and general home use spray rather than go down route of trying to mix water alcohol and EO.
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andoy
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2015, 12:26:24 PM »

also I think with a  solubilizer... I think it neutralises the water repelling side of the EO, but it won't mean the EO will be suspended evenly in the liquid like milk for instance, bits will tend to float or sink depending on specific gravity of the EO. So it might be the spray is releasing more EO from the top or bottom of the liquid? ... so maybe shake before spraying?
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Iulia
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 12:38:21 PM »

I'm looking at doing hydrosols as clothes and general home use spray rather than go down route of trying to mix water alcohol and EO.

yeah but for those of us without allotments and home distilling machines??  :mwaha: :mwaha: :mwaha:
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andoy
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 12:49:06 PM »

 :mwaha:  :mwaha:

maybe look at it from the point of lotion making. the solysorbate is basically acting like an emulsifier. In effect it might be a form of separation you are seeing? maybe add a gum or thickener so water is less fluid and the EO molecules that have bound to solysorbate are less mobile in the water.

I don't know if it would work, but worth a go?
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andoy
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 01:31:01 PM »

Other more experience lotion makers, please feel free to jump in. Perhaps another thing to try is to calculate HLB. Polysorbate 20 might not be the right choice (or mix it with something else?). I have a feeling it is more suited to FO and not EO
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Iulia
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2015, 05:33:52 PM »

Andoy can you remember what you thought it was the lady used at the other market?
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Iulia
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2015, 05:36:28 PM »

I've only got ps80 in at the moment, so it might not be the best trial, but I tried a 2% PS solution. It hardly dispersed the eo at that level, although not milky, and was still very sticky even so.

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andoy
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 06:06:04 PM »

she wasn't using polysorbate. I mentioned it to her because I don't think she heard of it. She was using a combo of alcohol and water. Not sure what type of alcohol and what proportion as I didn't get to ask her. Her sprays weren't cheap. She was selling them as sort of pleasant scent spray, but in fact they are basically mini perfumes and most people will probably use them as that for the price she was selling them at (£10 for 100ml bottle?).

Polysorbate 20 & 80 are described as a way of making small amount of oils solubiseable in water... quite a few sites say it, but the HLB values are 16.7 & 15 respectively. Many EOs have much lower HLB value (somewhere around 8 mark). It may work as a solublubber thingy whotsit but I think it's not as effective and it just saves hassle of heating  Shrug?

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/pdf/Emulsions_&_HLB_System.pdf

If I were you I would try something along the lines of
1% EO
0.3% Polysorbate
0.7% glyceryl stearate
then a gelling agent (agar or xantham or even jello whatever you happen to have to hand)  :mwaha: this will help stabalise it.

(If you increase %EO then increase the Polysorbate & glyceryl stearate accordingly, but I have a feeling you could double or triple the EO and still be ok with those). You will have to heat them a la lotion and stick blend, but then you'll have less greassy ingredients
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