Fresholi | Melting Pot Café

Hello

I was really pleased to discover the Melting Pot Café this weekend - my family think I've gone quite bonkers with my passion for CP soap making and it's a massive relief to find I'm not alone  :)

I've been making my own CP soap for about 18 months and sticking to 100% natural ingredients, reading everything I can get my hands on about each ingredients so I can make informed choices and trying not to compromise on anything. One choice I made was to use Tallow (beef) in my soap which I render at home - the fat coming from a grass fed herd via my local award winning farm shop. With other oils it makes really amazing soap .. and as the story so often seems to go it has become 'in demand' among my family and friends.

Taking the next step however - deciding to try to sell - meant finding out about cosmetic safety assessements, insurance etc. - I've done a *lot* of reading!  :o

I sent of my recipies to an assessor - the note back yesterday at first surprised me - they can't assess a recipe that uses home rendered Tallow, only commercially produced Tallow. Thinking about it I guess it's not a total surprise, as it is difficult to produce a material data safety sheet for home rendered tallow right, perhaps as the process is not going to be absolutely consistent.

On the other hand it seems strange that I can buy the suet, render it and use it for cooking etc or spread it on my toast! but I can't use it in soap that I sell.

Anybody else run into this? or am I the only one mad enough to try to sell soap with tallow!

I've had a look at sources for commercial tallow but it feels like a massive compromise versus the lovely pure white grass fed stuff I can make myself. I know I could swap it out for something else .. but again feels like a huge compromise to me.

I'd be happy to hear from any of you about this. I think it might be just a 'UK thing' as I see tallow soaps for sale for example in the US.

Tall Paul
County Durham, UK

Hi Paul - nice to meet you.  And much sincere admiration for taking things right back to the raw ingredients.  That is amazing.

I'm speaking from a complete lack of knowledge of the way these things work - I only make for myself, friends and family - but I wonder whether it is possible to get your tallow accredited in some way that would satisfy the safety assessors?  I guess this might be an agricultural thing, or at least in some arena that is separate from the cosmetics world.

Other people with much better knowledge than me will be along soon, but that is just what occurred to me.

Good luck - it would be awful if this wasn't possible.

I use tallow in my soap - and lard - who is your assessor?

Hello Paul, welcome to the forum.

Shame about the tallow particularly as home grown plants can be used: if your safety assessor is Scott (member here but rarely posts these days) he might be able to ell you whether you can get your tallow challenge tested or approved in some way.

I do remember that some years ago, well before the current regs., that there were some assessors who stated that they could/would not approve tallow or lard from any source whatsoever.

There was one in particular EJ - but I found a couple (actually three) who would do it. I also found it wildly frustrating that the same lard I could put in a pie crust and serve to my family was somehow suspect in SOAP  :mwaha:

welcome Paul  :hi:

I'm not sure how it works with rendering your own stuff. I think it might have to do with sterilisation if you are doing your own rendering. Soap has to keep and I think if you don't do it correctly it can go rancid. I think tallow is a super ingredient in a soap, but it is looked down on a bit compared to olive oil.

And yes, welcome to the strange world of cosmetic regulations. Wait till you get to labeling and allergen declaration and portal!

I like to think I am doing my bit to educate people   ;D

Iulia - thanks for your note, great to hear I'm not alone :)

EJ - Yes I wrote to scott and got a reply from Amanda saying they could only assess 'commercially produced tallow'

Andoy - I agree it is probably about 'risk' but I'm holding out hope that I can find a way to address and manage the risk. "labeling and allergen declaration and portal" .. is it wrong that I find that interesting?  :o

Acorn - thanks a lot for the encouragement, I will keep digging and looking into this.

All of you - thanks for the great welcome and encouraging comments - looks like I've found the right place! .. ... butterflies right?  :buttrf:

Welcome to the forum Paul. Can't help re tallow though.

 :mwaha: yes, so wrong... there is lots of useful info on here about all the other stuff!

I do hope you find an SA that can clear it for you, but they will be more expensive than Scott. I think it's a good hook into your farm shop and your own produce, but a fairly large initial investment and effort for the return. No doubt you'll be doing the maths.

A lot of people have been put off animal products because in craft markets you get a large number of veggie/vegan customers, people worried about animal welfare, health scares from farming/meat or just plain ignorance really. You have an advantage over crafters as you're selling something with providence and your customer base will be meat eaters that appreciate your product.

Castile soap and vegetable based soaps were produced in France/Spain and historically animal/whale fat was used in NW Europe because veg oils were less available and more expensive... the number of times I get asked are these French soaps and I put on my really bad French accent "mais no, je produce ça en Engleterre" ...and that sells it  :mwaha:

not as bad as that Andy really - most of my soaps contain tallow, and I find possibly one customer out of a hundred even ASK. Sometimes they buy anyway, but I usually have a couple of veggie only batches on the go so if they like the stuff and that's an issue they have something to chose.

Funnily enough I had a customer before Christmas telling me she nearly hadn't come to my stall because she thought I had bought in stuff before one of my display boxes says something about 'savon francais'

and I smiled sweetly and said gosh I never thought of that, while thinking how could I ever put myself in the head of someone so thick ....  :mwaha:

I am sorry I can't help with your questions but I just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum  :) :buttrf:

maybe I get most of them Iulia because I have so much greenery in my stall :mwaha:

fine the hippy tree huggers are all yours  ;D

I get them too, maybe because I advertise as being veggie and vegan friendly! I don't mind though,as I am veggie, so not a problem for me:)

Hi sorry I can't answer your question but just wanted to say hello  :)

I can't help but also wanted to say hello

Thanks for the additional welcomes ..  you really are a friendly bunch!  ;D

Oh don't get me wrong - some people are of course interested in the ingredients. Just there is a bit of a myth that you can't sell soap containing animal fat in the UK. If Paul believes in his product there is no reason he can't sell it if he can get over or round the SA issue here.

You can put forward tallow as a sustainable alternative to palm or olive as its a by product of an industry realistically going nowhere soon. It really is the original palm free soap  ;D

Like so many other product elements it's all down to the neighbourhood you're in. With all the stalls around here selling sausages I imagine there many who don't care about tallow!

I use tallow in my shave soap :)

I agree with everything you're saying Iulia. I'd rather tallow is used than palm, but as I am veggie I don't use any animal fats  :buttrf: :buttrf:

I know Emma I wasn't trying to persuade you  :mwaha:

I am constantly trying to turn her to the dark side  :anglll:

You two! Very naughty :) :mwaha:

Any more of this offtopic discussion and the Naughty Corner looms (haven't moved anyone for ages!)