Fresholi | Melting Pot Café

I'm looking for someone to make me some soap for teeth cleaning.
Currently buying from the US but would prefer to buy home-grown.
I usually buy 1kg at a time.

Dental soap?  How interesting.  I've not heard of this but would love to learn a bit more peaches  :)  Welcome BTW  ;)

Same here!

What can I tell you, it's soap and I clean my teeth with it!
I grate it up like cheese, put a shred on a molar, bite down and brush away.
I should add that I only use peppermint and nothing floral and I have instructions from my current supplier on how to make it.
I will never go back to using toothpaste and neither would you if you investigated the poisons it contains!

I've read about this on the US forum but never tried or investigated how to make it. I know there are a lot of parabens in toothpaste but what else?

Hi Peaches
is the dental soap soft? or hard? and does it taste soapy? have never heard of it before u c  ;)

It's soft but goes hard if I leave the lid off the jar overnight, still useable though.
Yes it is soapy - it is soap after all!
There's no mystery here - it's just 100% natural soap with peppermint essential oil.

I read about it too on another forum, would like to try it myself.  If you have the recipe someone can make it up, what do the ingredients look like before I commit myself to making anything  ;)

The ingredients are olive oil, coconut oil, palm oil, and peppermint essential oil.
It mustn't be superfatted or have glycerin added.

lol....  You have to forgive us here peaches, most of us find the thought of the tongue zap test a bit icky.  Would it have the same consistency of say shaving soap?    

Out of interest, (to the group as a whole really), would a different SA be required for dental products to that of topical application?  Anyone know??

From what I can see its just regular soap (olive coconut & palm) with EO and although I haven't read the entire thread of 17 pages, it would seem to be fairly simple. Is there any abrasive element to it?
Also you say it is in shreds, what are the benefits of that over say a small bar? Possibly hygiene?

Reason #1:

Toothpaste Contains Fluoride. Fluoride is a severe biological poison. Being intensely negative, it unlatches positive hydrogen bonds in enzymes and proteins. In the USA there are mandatory warnings like this on tubes of toothpaste:
"WARNING: Keep out of reach of children under 6 years of age. If you accidentally swallow more than is used for brushing, seek professional help or contact a poison control center immediately."

This is due to lawsuits in which children were poisoned by fluoride-containing toothpaste. For instance, Keith Cantor, a little boy who lived in McMinnville, Oregon died in the dentist’s chair from ingesting ½ teaspoon of fluoride, and 3 kidney dialysis patients were killed in 1998 at the University of Chicago Medical School, when nurses used unpurified Chicago tap water for dialysis.

A mine of information can be found at www.fluoridealert.org
 

Reason #2:

Toothpaste Prevents Tooth Re-enamelization.

The main ingredient in toothpaste is viscous, sticky glycerine, which coats the teeth and prevents re-enamelization from nutrients in the diet. Glycerine takes over 20 rinses to be removed and leaves your teeth coated!
 

Sceptical? Try this simple test. Start with a clean sink and smear some of your toothpaste on the sink. Rinse it off and watch how the water beads up because of the sticky glycerine. You will have to keep rinsing and rinsing to remove it! Your teeth are similar to a porcelain sink, and your teeth are being coated every time you use toothpaste. Coated teeth cannot re-enamelize from nutrients in the diet!

 

Reason #3:

Toothpaste Contains Silica.

Silica, which is sand, can harm gums and is abrasive to tooth enamel.

Even ‘natural’ toothpastes contain silica and glycerine!

 

What Is the Solution for Healthier Teeth and Gums?

How you care for your mouth determines the health of your teeth and gums. Use soap to clean your teeth because soap is an excellent detergent, mixing insoluble oils on the tongue, inner cheek and teeth with the water and rinsing it away. Teeth that are cleaned and rinsed using bar soap are far cleaner than those cleaned with toothpaste, which contains sugar, acid, chalk, silicates (sand), fluoride, methyl benzoate (for a cool mouth feel) dyes, stabilizers, mixing agents and other contaminating chemicals.

These badly contaminate the teeth and prevent good enamelization.

 

Any soap won't do. The soap must be free of impurities.


According to Dr. Gerald Judd, PhD (professor, chemist, researcher and author of ‘Good Teeth Birth To Death):

“Re-enamelisation of the teeth occurs when they are clean. All toothpastes make a barrier of glycerine on the teeth, which would require 20 rinses to get it off. A good solution for clean teeth is Dental Soap. All oils are washed off the teeth and the gums are disinfected. The bacteria are killed by the dental soap. The teeth are then ready for re-enamelisation with calcium and phosphate in the diet.”

Hi Corrie
Yes it's only for hygiene reasons but the bar is handy for small children as they just rub the wet toothbrush on it.
I would chop it into chunks rather than use the whole bar for this.
It's really handy for travelling too - just put a few shreds in a tiny zip lock bag - good for washing your hands when out and about too if you don't like the nasty chemical liquids found in public toliets.

The glycerine bit is interesting.
By its nature handmade soap retains its naturally forming glycerine, commercial soaps generally remove the glycerine.
So how does that "wash"?
How much glycerine is bad for your teeth?

yea, don't add any castor oil  :mwaha: (sorry lil bit of soapy humour)

I don't know how much is bad for the teeth.
It's added glycerin that is the problem not what is already in the soap.
Everyone I've given or sold the soap to has said that their teeth have never felt so clean.
You can actually feel that your teeth aren't been coated with glycerine unlike with toothpaste.
Like I said before, I'll never use toothpaste again.
20g lasts me and my boyfriend months - way cheaper than buying tooth poison, er, paste from the supermarket.
Interestingly my soap maker in the US had never tried it before making it for me but now she's hooked and the the lady who used to make it for me here couldn't bear the thought of putting it in her mouth.

Well, I'm going to dig into my box of old soap. They were all EO soaps, although not peppermint. I'll give it a try and report back tommorrow.
Peaches, did the soap have salt in it? I doubt it will be hard to get someone to make it here. Its a simple recipe  ;D

no it didn't have salt in it, just the ingredients in my previous post.
Try brushing a couple of times before deciding whether you dislike it or not.
A word of warning - don't use too much - it's a bit unpleasant if you do!

if 20g lasts you months, can you not just keep buying from the US??
I doubt whether it would attract import duties & would be cheap to send over. The £ is so strong against the $ too.

Good point K.  What sort of quantities are you looking for peaches?

Think she bought a kilo!
Thats a lot just for teeth  ;D

Not if it's for selling on though.

Or is that just for the other stuff Peaches?

Just picked up on this thread and am not sure if I like the idea of cleaning my teeth with soap. But must admit I have been concerned with what is in toothpaste recently.
My dentist gave my grand daughter fluoride tablets and said all children should have extra fluoride but I do remember a case many years ago of a teenage girl with bone problems which it was reported was caused by fluoride tablets, so I did not give them to my grand daughter (fluoride occurs naturally in food.)
Will give it a go. Can't knock till you tried it.
Kim

I don't get why cleaning your teeth with soap is such a horrible thought - it foams -  just like toothpaste but you wouldn't want to swallow any - just like toothpaste.
It's natural - unlike toothpaste.
I need a kilo at a time because I sell it on - so there is a market for it!

Please take a look at www.fluoridealert.org
Fluoride is a by product of the aluminium industry - a poison - and it's in your toothpaste!

Neither fluoride nor silica are in the toothpaste currently in our bathroom, there is glycerine.

Are there any brands of regular toothpaste that don't have all the bad stuff or less of it?
Haven't yet dug out my old soap to clean teeth with, but I will give it a go.

Have dug out some old peppermint soap....still think this is a wierd idea  :-\
(but will give it a go).

Can I just ask, is there any consequences to using such an alkaline product on your teeth and gums?  I wonder what the pH is of regular toothpaste compared with this is.  I'll go check mine.....

Ok, this has surprised me.  I had visions of regular TP being slightly alkaline but actually, mine is acid (pH5.5).  I am genuinely surprised by this.

Elaine it doesn't have to be listed if it's less than 1%.
I've researched this and the only toothpaste that fits the bill is this one:-
http://www.absolutelypure.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Mi-Tooth&cat=13
It doesn't foam and it's a bit salty for me (due to the sodium bicarbonate) so I prefer the soap.

Nice site peaches, lots of lovely stuff  :)  Is there a good market for this (dental soap I mean - obviously there is otherwise you wouldn't be asking for it to be made)

Oops, just noticed upthread that you did indeed say there was a market for this - sorry peaches

I thought toothpaste had the same rules as other cosmetics - i.e. ingredients under 1% can be listed in any order at the end, (after the other ingredients in descending order) but do have to be listed.

Right...TESTING TESTING....I have just downed a glass of wine (for encouragement) and am now going to clean my teeth with soap. To be precise, a peppermint and rosemary soap made with only the ingredients that peaches listed.

OMG

Anyone want to join me?

No?

 OK, my good deed for the day, back in a bit...

would it be really cruel to use my OH's toothbrush instead of mine?

I won't deny that toothpaste has lots of nasties in it, but I just couldn't bring myself to clean my teeth with soap.  Even doing a zap test on plain unscented soap is unpleasant to me.  :-\

No, Nicki.  Not cruel at all.  ::)

I wouldn't consider that cruel at all N, in fact I think it is rather kind of you to be giving his toothbrush a nice little clean for him.  You are a good wife.   :mwaha:

OK, I did it...with my toothbrush!

It was realy not too bad. While I cleaned my teeth it foamed up exactly like toothpaste does, but tasted of soap.  I couln't taste any of the peppermint EO at all so maybe dantal soap has a higher amount of EO in it?
As I brushed I had a memory flash of biting into a bar of soap when I was little and heard a voice in my head with an american accent yelling "filthy child! Go and scrub your mouth out with soap!" I have NO idea where that came from!
I spat and rinsed..and rinsed again and still tasted soap but my teeth did feel clean and smooth (not that they felt particulary dirty and bumpy before hand).
I would be happy to clean my teeth again with soap IF it didn't leave a soapy afertaste in my mouth afterwards.
So....Peaches? Can you taste the peppermint in your soap? And what sort of aftertaste does it leave?

Now I want somebody else to try!

Well done Nicki and thanks for that.  Hmmm.....  I may have to give it a whirl.  I'm just feeling a bit... well, you know.  I need some time on this.  Although, I don't have any soap that fits the ingredient description.

Chick



chick



CHICKEN!!!!

I'd give it a go - but like Helen I don't have any soap which meets the requirement.

With the no superfatting it would have to be well-cured wouldn't it?

Yep, you got me.  Oh and  :rasp:

 :mwaha:

Elaine you are right - I got confused with the US regs which I've been researching, they drive me mad as they are not all the same. For better or worse the US is not as strict as the EU.
Well cured? My soapmaker leaves it for a month - is that well cured?
She only adds 3% peppermint oil but is going to try 5% next time as it's not minty enough. It doesn't taste soapy either, just sort of 'clean'.
A couple of times in the begining (with a different supplier) I used too much and must have burned my gums because it hurt like hell for about 4 days, needless to say I'm more stingy with the amount now!
Is this something to do with it being alkaline? (Although it felt like acid!)

That sounds like "lye heavy" - if there's nil superfatting then calculations have to be spot on or the soap left to cure for longer - 4 weeks is sort of average for Cold Process - maybe your current supplier makes Hot Process and leaves it for 4 weeks.

I don't know whether anyone would in the UK would have a Safety Assessment/Certificate for more than 3% Essential Oil in CP or HP soap.

Also if it's to be sold as specifically as Dental Soap then a new assessment may well be required.

Hi Elaine, that's exactly what I'm looking for - one of you lovely soapy ladies to make the soap and get it assessed.  Anyone up for the challenge?

Well have tried it too......and the sensation is a little wierd.  I used a very old peppermint one, and it tasted ok - not unpleasant.  (But I guess I'm used to the taste of soap by now ;D).  

Like Nicki, I was quite impressed with the foam produced on the brush and I made sure I only used a little.  Clean sensation in the mouth afterwards so it seems to work ok.

Peaches - I'd be interested in seeing the recipe to try a test batch to see if it's worth going for assessment.  But you need to be aware that this will take a while since the batch will need to cure before the formulation can be checked out.  You need to also understand that assessment for an isolated recipe could be quite costly (probably why everyone is thinking twice about trying this).  I'll be sending some formulations off to the lab in the next month or so, so that's why I'm willing to give it a go.  

Please PM me if you're interested...

Could you use others oils to disguise the taste? I get herbal toothpaste from Lidls (only 45p & lovely taste). It has extract of Mentha arvensi oil, Commiphora Myrrha extract, Chamomilla Recutita extract, Salvia officinalis extract. Would that work ???
The other one I get has Eucalyptus and spearmint  in it.
Kim

I would be willing to give it a go and make some as i know I would be able to sell it to my friends (though how long they would stay as friends after using it is another matter). Then let you lot test it when it has cured for at least 4 weeks. But whether I can get it assessed is another matter as I still have not had a reply from Nigel or any of the others.
I have tried the nice and  the pleading and am at the :rant: stage now.
Kim :tantrum:

With regards to the SA I am sure it would have to be different due to the method of application and risk of ingestion.
Saying that though, I've done a few quick searches on dental soap or soap for cleaning teeth and people seem to be recommending any soap as long as it does not contain glycerine.

Very interesting...

Sharon - my thoughts exactly.

If I get the recipe from Peaches I'm going to try a test batch and then run it past my assessor to see what else needs to be considered and whether there are any insurance issues.  The zero superfat is a concern, since there's a very fine line between getting perfect saponification .... and a sore mouth!  :bawl:

This is not a beginners soap, that's for sure!

I' ve been thinking about this more. If part of the problem is that glycerine coats the teeth and needs rinsing times, the point that is missing is that it would remove eventually on its own from the saliva in the mouth anyway. Teeth aren't permanently coated, are they, so I don't see what the problem is? Am I missing something?  :shrug:  

I know there is a lot of debate about flouride and I am against the forceful mass medication of the nation by puting flouride in the water, but there are loads of toothpastes available now that do not contain fluoride, sls/sles or parabens.

Perhaps I need to read Dr Judd's book to understand it more?

Whay an interesting thread, don't know how I missed it. I might have a go with a palin soap but all my soaps are superfatted. Why shouldn't the soap be superfatted? Anybody know?

No problems if it's superfatted as far as I know. OK, I have tried soap in dental hygiene and my teeth felt surprisingly clean. I just don't know if I can change toothpaste to soap. My dentist certainly recommends toothpaste with fluoride and since I have too much karies :( I think I should just obey the dentist, she's a professional after all.

Here people think fluoride is essential for teeth care and I'm scared of leaving it off!

soaps should be superfatted the only time you don't superfat is if your making laundry soap
reason why is that if you make just the tinsy mistake you could end up stripping your skin and burning it with the lye.
non superfatted soap is an irritant.

I've just emailed my soap lady to ask her for the exact recipe.  She is still using it to clean her own teeth and tells me she will sell it on her own site as 5 other people have asked her to make some!
Soheila please educate yourself about fluoride - don't trust your dentist just because she's a professional!
Take a look at www.fluoridealert.org.
By the way if any of you are looking for top quality, short run labels check out www.digitaldeadline.co.uk
They did a fab job for me last year.
Also there is a brilliant label printer available called the Primera LX400.
I recommended it to a supplier who bought one and she loved it so much she recommended it to one of her suppliers who also bought one!
If any of you are going to the Natural Products Show this month you'll probably see it there.

But fluoride in the water supply (which is the predominant theme of that site) is somewhat different from fluoride in toothpaste - one is swallowed and the other spat out.

The site states that fluoride which is ingested, as in water, does not benefit the teeth and one of the links actually advocates fluoride in toothpaste as this coats the teeth, offering protection, but is not swallowed.

Earlier up the thread the lady who started it said that the dental soap shouldn't be superfatted. I wanted to know why? I would have thought that a lye heavy bar might be the worse thing to put into your mouth as it would do a lot of damage.

Incidently, I tried it this morning my soap has olive, coconut oil, palm and cocoa butter along with FO's. It didn't taste as bad as I remember when my mom washed my mouth out with it when I was younger.  :mwaha: Saying that if I remember rightly it was washing up liquid.

I tried brushing with soap last night and this morning. Wasn't bad last night, didn't mind the taste at all, just rinsed well.
This morning I tried again...yucky yuck, made me gag and way too much foam. However, I dont give up easily, so I will keep trying it.
Can't say I felt any difference on my teeth and I missed the minty freshness.

I am not trying it  ::)
I can send you some of my mint soap Corrie, you'll be breathing the minty freshness all day - I must tone down the eo's :mwaha:

Hi Peaches

It's interesting to see the % of oils, but the lye figure looks wrong to me (and I've just run it through an American lye calc to be sure)



Edited to say that the lye water have now been corrected and the amounts given are as they should be

Hi sal, no I'm not sure and I'm not a soapmaker so haven't got a clue. I've just asked her about this and will post her reply.

Edited to say that the lye water have now been corrected and the amounts given are as they should be

I'll go in and change it just in case someone does try, hope that's ok Peaches?   :)

It's been changed around now so should be safe now (am I correct?)

maybe delete the post that says is it reversed, could be confusing??

I was thinking this Karen.  Didn't want to just go in an delete posts though.  I'll see if I can edit them a bit  ;)

Ok, done some editing and sorry Sal and Peaches, I had to remove two posts otherwise it would be confusing now that I've gone in and edited the recipe (don't like doing that but I hope you understand  :))

No probs - the recipe posted earlier was unsafe, which is why I quickly posted the warning.   I still have concerns, and will probably amend the recipe anyway.

I'd stress to all newbies that a superfat is essential to ensure that all of the sodium hydroxide is used up during saponification.  I could bore you with the chemistry that's involved, but needless to say this is not suitable as a beginners soap.

Cool Sal, I wouldn't have deleted any of those posts if I hadn't had made any amendments (after which, it all got a bit confuzzing)

my supplier assures me that all the sodium hydroxide is used up and there is none left in the finished soap.  It has never burned me.
It was a previous supplier who told me it should not be superfatted but this was the one that burned my mouth.
Hope that's clear.

Decide to leave this one well alone and let some one else have a go.
To many issues to worry about.
Kim

I've found someone to make a trial batch!

hello peaches i would like to know how this goes, can you please update me.
i have to say that growing up i never had a problem using soap instead of toothpaste, sometime si just felt too lazy to brush my teeth else where and go in the bathroom to have my bath so i  just rubbed my sponge or toothbrush on  whatever, bar or powdered soap. i went to the dentist for the first time ever at the age of 18 and she told me she had never seen such healthy teeth in someone who had never taken the path leading to a dentist's  chair  for such a long time.  once i had my first visit though, there begun a string of reasons to have to go to the dentist.

Thats interesting AS.  I'm not sure how the test batch is going but no doubt we'll get an update at some point  ;)

Update on the dental soap - In fact there are 2 batches on the cure (I've tried 2 variants) and samples will be off to Peaches for her opinion very soon.  I'm also discussing with my assessor.

Sal, 'can i sample too since i have long history of well developed taste for dental soap' .

will PM you CB

what an interesting thread, i had never honestly thought of using toothpaste to brush my teeth to be honest it sounds a bit weird !!!

let us know how it goes !

how did the experiment go ?

I would love to know....

i've been using the dental soap since may or june, it was only a small slice maybe 15 or 20g and all i can say its great, even my 10 year uses it, its almost finished now so he hoggs it in his bathroom.

wow, might have to give that a try one day....I think at the moment I am still too chicken.....

Hun, i'm too chicken too!