Fresholi | Melting Pot Café

Hello everyone!

I have been making hair- & body products for a couple of years now. I make stuff for my own consumption and have no plans for the bigger scale. Occasionally I give something away but it often makes me a bit nervous afterwards. What if that lotion separates? especially since I fiddle with the recipes all the time. I make many and huge mistakes :-) Sometimes I probably sound like I have more experience than I actually have. I've been reading far more than I've been making. I think too much, trying to make what I learn about making lotions and hair conditioner fit into what I know about chemistry. So I will continue to read... I wish I could afford textbooks about cosmetic chemistry but they are ridiculously expensive!

A fairly big reason for my making my own stuff is my eczemas. I have seen worse eczemas than mine but they are incredible hard to kill *sigh* which probably has to do with my skin type. Redhead... fair, sensitive skin goes with it. Making your own stuff is a good way of trying out what works, since you can change one ingredient at the time.

I blog about my adventures in homecrafting my stuff. But my blog is in Swedish, so not very many here will be able to read it. http://hemkokeriet.wordpress.com/ (moderators, if you don't what the link there feel free to remove it) Some people blog because they want to teach. I do a little bit of that but I also blog about my mistakes, about stuff I wonder... blogging is a great way of interacting with others who have the same interests as you have. I just wish the pool of people who
1) are interested in handcrafting shampoos, lotions etc
2) read Swedish
3) like sharing their experiences on the Internet
were bigger... forum participation in English is fine, but writing my own texts in English  -I'm too attached to my native language for that.

Other things in life. Oh well. I both work and study to be a physiotherapist so I don't have much time, but I like dancing (partner dancing). And I have a black belt in aikido, although I left the art several years ago. I used to read lots of fiction but for some reason that has declined in the last years. I guess it's the competition from other interests - and of course the internet.

I have heard nice things about this forum so I hope I'll like it here :-)

welcome its lovely to have you here :buttrf:

Hello Vaxet, welcome to the forum.

hello and welcome aboard (((waves)))

hello Vaxet !  :buttrf:

Hi and welcome!

I started making my own products because of bad eczema as well, so I understand :)

What kind of dancing do you do?  I spent some summers up in Sweden at Herräng Dance Camp (I'm a lindy hopper)... I imagine since you do some kind of social dance and are in Sweden that you've heard of it or been there!

Vaxet, welcome and thanks for the thoughtful intro- the honesty is refreshing :)
There are kindred spirits here, you will find much to discuss... I even think there is a Swedish person here  :buttrf:


Awesome to have existing knowledge of chemistry-  Wish I had a bit more... I too have seen the prices of some of those texts...

Hello! You really will love it here.  :buttrf:
I'm part of the red-haired, fair skinned, eczema sufferers, so I know how you feel!

hello there, Everyones really friendly and helpful here, I'm sure you will love it

Hi Vaxet and a warm welcome to the forum.  What a lovely intro!  I am sure there are one or two who will be able to read your blog  - I am sure it is great to read  :buttrf:


Sooooo.......  I won't be picking any arguments with you then  :mwaha:

I hope you enjoy it here  :buttrf:

Hi!  :hi:

 :hi:

 :hi: Hello from Canada.  What a wonderful introduction, it's really nice to meet you and I look forward to getting to you :buttrf:

Planning on causing some mischief are we?  :mwaha:

Oops

Getting to know you! :mwaha:

Hello and welcome.

Hello and welcome!  :)
I too am one for over thinking everything!
I could probably write half a book on soap making now and I haven't even starting one batch of soap! Terrible! :mwaha:

Hi nice to meet you  :buttrf:

Wow, lots of replies! Thank you all.


Oh, I've done a little bit of this and a little bit of that, never growing particularly proficient before I jumped to next one. I have done some lindyhopping! for... like a year or so? before dropping out, heading towards Argentine tango. I've actually been to Herräng! That place has some magic feeling to it - although the dancing experience was not so good for me. I went as beginner, I had taken like six classes before going to Herräng. They gave beginner classes week 1, but there is better beginner classes than in Herräng. The classes are way too hugh, for starters. I think you should be a little bit more advanced for Herräng, probably.


The pricing is amazing, isn't it!

I'm not an actual chemist. The chemistry and biochemistry I took at university level amounts to something like 5-6 months, I think, if I add it together. Most of it is long time ago, and of course I have forgotten huge chunks of it. I do have some remaining understanding of concepts though, and I can read and understand chemical explanations - if not too advanced, of course. This background was great when I started reading the INCI on labels. For people who don't understand the chemistry terminology at all, that must be way hard!

I have some chemistry related questions to ask. Not sure if this forum is the right place or not? That will show, I guess. I semi-regularly pester the only real chemist I know and he answers to the best of his ability although his field is extremely far away from organic chemistry and he ends all his answers with "I think", "I guess" or "possibly".  :P


Do you know if we as redheads are more eczema prone than others? I never heard anyone saying so. But since our skin is generally considered sensitive if feels kind of logical. OTOH we might ascribe most of our hair and skin characteristic to the redheadedness, even when this has nothing to do with it. At least for me, my hair always was a big part of my identity and I might well exaggerate importance here.


I know the feeling!

When I first started out I wanted to make hair , shampoo, shower cream, lotion, body butter... pretty much everything (except for soap. I have grown kind of interested in soap making lately but I probably won't try in the near future). I bought so many ingredients - small packages, but many different kinds. I still probably haven't really used half of them. The way I have gone about it, making your own cosmetic/skin care product is not very cheap at all.  ::) On the other hand, it's a hobby - if I think of it that way, it is not a terribly expensive one. And considering what I have learned about handling my ezcemas, it has been worth every dime/penny/cent/öre/etc.


Hehe. Well. Aikido is not about fighting, anyway. It's a really weird martial art. To me it was more of an art form, really.


Thanks a lot for the warm welcome!

Another eczema sufferer here (naturally brunette!).

Try mixing a few drops of white birch eo, vitamin e and bisabolol into some shea butter. This has done wonders for eczema on my face lately, though it has been harder to get it under control on my hands.

I've been using it all over my face and my skin looks better than it has for ages.

Hello, nice to hear all about you  :buttrf:

Hi  ;D welcome !

My younger brother and I are the only natural redheads in the family (lots of cousins, none have the skin problems that we do). I too have often wondered if there is a connection, but working in Pharmacy for so long, and seeing all kinds of patients collect dermatological prescriptions, I can't say I have noticed a particular trend.

I am a typical fiery redhead (and I'm an Aries - makes a good combo - stubborn and fiery  :mwaha:) but I colour my hair. I got bullied so much throughout my school years, I really resent my natural hair colour. Shame really, black hair is hard to maintain as a redhead ;D

Shea butter is nice.

White birch EO? I never heard of it. *googling* Are you refering to Betula papyrifera or something else? Is the EO made from the leaves or the bark? Another suggestion on essential oils for eczemas I've seen is sage.

Bisabolol is on my list of stuff I want to try! Or chamomile, but since bisabolol is supposed to be the major "active ingredient" in chamomile that might be the first priority. I do have a small portion of bisabolol at home, haven't used it yet. I'm planning to use it in a lotion.

Now let's see. I do know how to make Pubmed searches... no, I can't find anything. It could be that they haven't studied it but still. They have made some advances in the study of the genetics of redheadedness, though. We have a mutated receptor, apparently :P and we need more anaestetics than others - that's something anaesthetists always knew! one of them told me 20 years ago. But now they've actually checked it. Hey, what is this! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2928047 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2928047)


The quote is not in the linked abstract, but in the full article. Regarding men that is probably true, unfortunately. But women? Hasn't that changed dramatically over the last 20-30 years?


A sad thing to hear. I was bullied in school for my hair, among many other things. But the things they said about my hair never got to me, like some of the other things they said. I wouldn't say I'm proud of my hair, although I do like it, but it's something I've never questioned. It just is. I tried bleaching it once, but that was a pure experiment! I wanted to see if I still was me if I wasn't a redhead ;D and I was. The experiment was fun, though. People didn't recognise me!

For several years I used henna to improve my hair colour. I thought it was getting fader, needing some help. But I did not really like what the henna did to the feeling of my hair, and the more intense colour make me look so pale - I am pale, no need exaggerating. So I dropped that.

I was a little (a lot) on the large side through my childhood right up until I hit my early 20's, so I didn't have a lot going for me from a bully's perspective! I'm still really sensitive about some things, and I guess it has made me kinda vain, and made me desperate to be a 'pretty' and 'sexy' girl. I spend a lot of time infront of the mirror and took time to learn how to do my makeup well, and I am careful what clothes I choose and how they look on me. I can easily take a step back and look at myself objectively, try and see myself how others do.
In a way I guess I'm a bit OCD with how I look (I'm sure a couple of people on here can vouch for that..). Its likely that a lot of people think that I really must love myself, but it's not that way at all. I don't feel confident if I feel that I don't look my best.
It's bad in the sense that I feel I always have to check my hair and makeup frequently, and always have to carry a mirror and 'supplies' with me, but good in the sense that I take care of my appearance, and I like to think that other people see that and respect it. I'm really not down with the 'scruffy' look that a lot of younger people seem to 'wear' these days (is that me just sounding old?). I quite like being pale, I embrace it now and play on it (dark hair, dark makeup). Even now, people at work tell me that I need to spend a few weeks in the sun, but a) I don't tan and b) I'd just look weird I think. Plus I don't want to look like everyone else, or to just 'fit in'. I tried to do that in my teens and it wasn't me, so now I just do what I want.
Funny how childhood experiences can stay with you for the rest of your life.

I'm almost the opposite Alphya... I usually go without makeup. I have nothing against it, I'm just too lazy. I do try to keep my hair in order, but the time I'm willing to spend on it is limited. Since I quit shampoo (well almost at least) and usually conditioner wash, I feel I should be a good representative of the conditioner wash method and always have fabulous-looking hair  :D but I don't.

I guess I'm one of those women who make other women irritated because I don't spend enough time on my appearance.

I've met of couple of nicely tanned redheads - it's more golden, never really brown, but it matches the rest of their colours well. I guess you could be right that it wouldn't look right with black hair.

I have a friend who is just as pale as me, but she doesn't have the same colours. Her hair is brownish black and the skin tone is different - I can't say if it's more olive or blue, but not like mine. When we spend the first summer's afternoon together in the sun, my freckles that go pale in winter come back almost while you're looking at them - after a couple of hours they're back in full strength. The rest of my skin mostly go pink :p but in her, nothing happens. And still she's as pale as me. She needs mediterranean sun to make a difference. When I comment on it she smiles and says "desert genes" (she's of Jewish origin). But most peoples who has lived where it's sunny has dark skin... this is so weird.

Hm, it's the deliberately scruffy hair that looks completely unbrushed, and messed up makeup that I can't stand  :o

Conditioner wash? What's that? I'm curious  :buttrf:

When I was younger I had quite a lot of freckles (typical ginger kid) but as I've gotten older they've just disappeared apart from a few on my arms (which I quite like).
I went to Texas for a holiday a few years back, came home the same colour as the day I flew out  :mwaha:

Conditioner wash means using conditioner for washing your hair. It does work, but you have to rub the scalp more than when you use shampoo - and you can't use most styling products, since they contain things that stick to your hair and won't come out with just conditioner. You can't use just any kind of conditioner either - this is how I first learned to read the INCI labels!

The "gospel" of conditioner wash, especially for curly hair, was spread first by Lorraine Massey in her book "Curly Girl", and then by websites like http://www.naturallycurly.com (http://www.naturallycurly.com/) and http://www.britishcurlies.co.uk/ (http://www.britishcurlies.co.uk/). Most people who talk about no 'poo - no shampoo methods of washing your hair - go "conditioner only", CO. But there's other versions as well.

Some people who put lots of wax etc in their hair use regular shampoo, and then sometimes they need an extra strong, so called "clarifying shampoo" to get all the styling product residue out. I'm very strict on styling products, but I do get some beeswax in my hair since I use creams with beeswax and probably touch my hair more than I'm aware of. I wash with conditioner and sometimes use a mild shampoo without SLS or SLES, to get beeswax and possible silicone/hair product polymers out. The difference in my hair is dramatic. My hairs used to want to be all by themselves, very frizzy - so dry, and nothing helped.  My  hairdressers always complained about the shape my hair was in - they sounded like they thought my hair had never seen a hair pack. But I did hair packs every time I washed it... it didn't help, as long as I dried the hair out with regular shampoo. Now they don't complain any more, although I cut it much more seldom.

I don't go around telling people I very rarely shampoo. Too many people would probably think I was disgusting. I assure you, those who have actually stuck their noses into my hair these last years have found nothing to complain about. If I got stuff like motor oil in my hair, then sure I need shampoo... but I really think most of us overwash our hair and skin. Thoroughly lather all over probably is needed if you bath once a week! but nobody does that these days, right? If your skin and hair is very dry, they benefit from cutting down on the washing. Washing with milder agents lets you wash often but still not dry out too much.

When I feel dirty, for some reason, I need the bubbles... plenty of soap, and shampoo with a good lather. But that's more of a ritual. I don't actually think I need all that to get myself clean. (Isn't this why the liquid SLS-based soaps and shower creams almost completely took over the market? Because they give more lather. And in our minds, more lather means we get more clean.)

I'm the same way.  I KNOW that something less bubbly can work just as well, but I can't quite believe it.  This week I made my first 'real' shampoos, but used really mild surfactants, and it didn't foam hardly at all.  My husband thought his hair didn't get clean because of that and then rewashed his hair with grocery store shampoo.  I was dubious that it cleaned my hair until I dried it, and it was fine! 

Wow, that's really interesting :) Can imagine that it really does wonders to tame frizz. I have long, straight hair, and I find that it does get greasy quite quickly, especially as I touch it a lot.

I believe the big benefits of the conditioner only methods is for us who have dry hair - which most curlies have, since the curls make it difficult for the cuticle to stay shut. (Bend a fish, and see what happens to the scales.) Then in theory you could make the scalp produce less sebum (fat, grease, oils) if you for a longer period of time don't wash it away too harshly - this is a part of the "ugly period" you're supposed to go through, of which I noticed nothing. I have mixed reports of the success with this from people with oilier hair.

It was Swift - Swift with the blog - who suggested to me that the CO method probably is better for dry hair and I was surprised, since the CO community where I did spend quite some time preached the CO gospel trying to save everyone :p I think Swift was probably right.

Then there's the more extreme "no poo" hair care regimens.
 - Washing your hair with baking soda. You need to follow up with an acidic rinse since baking soda is basic. I know some people say it's great but knowing how my hair hates soap, I feel highly sceptical to basic pH in my hair.
 - Washing your hair with raw egg. Don't have too hot water in the shower, or you'll be in trouble when the egg coagulates in your hair! (I do understand how this one works though. Egg yolk contains plenty of lecithin, an natural emulsifyer. Emulsifyers have the ability of mixing fat and water, and so you can remove greasy dirt from your hair. But still... I haven't felt like trying it)
 - WO. Water only. This is the one I have the most problems with understanding. Even if I, in theory, could accept that perhaps it would work as long as I don't get any fatty dirt in my hair, I wouldn't want to try it.

Have you tried the (and I am making this name up now, because I don't know what it is called, but it gives you the idea), no wash, no nothing method?  Hair is actually self-cleaning - albeit it takes a while to get to the 'its ok now' stage - I believe there's a period of a few weeks when the hair is less than ok but apparently, after this time, it is supposedly rather good.  I haven't tried this but I can see how it would be quite good (in theory) for both dry and oily hair alike  :)

This is pretty fascinating!  I've myself noticed that my hair doesn't get greasy as quickly once I stopped with the OTC shampoos... Not sure if I'm ready to try the CO or no poo method.  My hair is long, fine and wavy.  Now that I've fallen in love with my imperfect, watery shampoo I'd have a hard time giving up all those new surfactants I've purchased!

What's OTC? "Over the counter"?

Some people define using milder surfactants than SLS/SLES and relatives as "low poo". If so you're a "low-pooer". I guess I'm a "low-pooer" myself, since I do use shampoo every now and then - a bit lower than you  :D

Making your own stuff and at the same time wanting to use as little products as possible is almost a self-contradiction! You want to try all that you make, you want to finish your bottles so you can make new, of a slightly different composition. Using products, trying products, almost becomes a goal in itself. But those who truly want to go "natural" probably should head for the larder (or pantry? Which word is normally used? Is one British and the other American?) At least for those who don't have dark hair there's plenty of foodstuffs that works fine as a dry shampoo, and that needs no preservative. Your kitchen olive oil is a little bit messier than a cream but works fine, and you don't need much. Humectants is a bit more tricky though. Sugars? Honey? I know people who use honey in their hair, but on the skin I think it's probably too sticky.

Myself I don't care that much about "natural". Hair conditioners is an example of a product that hardly ever is very natural. Still I think we are way too fascinated by products. By the label. By what the manufacturer promises us. When I buy products I don't just buy fat and humectant, processed and packed so that it will last. I buy an image... a feeling of luxury, of beauty.

I've never even heard about it! and my first thought is... eeew. My hair never looks greasy but if I don't wash it in a week, my scalp goes itchy and releases little white flakes - not really dandruff, but small white flakes (similar to the way they did when I used SLS shampoo. Not drying my scalp out with SLS has improved my scalp health, a lot.) So I don't think not washing my hair would work.

But if I think about it. Few other animal wash their fur. If you don't wash your dog, it's fur will be in perfect shape needing no help of any kind. Fat from the skin will slowly move its course from the skin through and on the hairs to the tips... so it's probably very healthy. It probably takes more than weeks for hair and scalp to adjust, though. The way to get there must be pretty painful.

And how would it smell!!! Most unwashed pets don't really smell that great. Not sure what makes the "wet dog" smell, but fats - in lotions and in our skin's natural sebum - do go rancid after a while.

I supposed nature meant us to smell of sweat as well. Hardly any animals take daily baths, our ancestors certainly didn't. But in today's society that's not really possible.

I have sincere problems in believing that the "water only" method is enough either, to live up to today's hygiene standards. At least not unless your hair is shorter than an inch or two. But many people don't wash their babies' hair with anything else than water and there's no smell problem. At what hair lenght/age does the hair start to need actual washing in order not to smell? Puberty certainly messes up the fat production in the skin. Other than that I don't know.

I'm sure a huge part (but not all) of the problems people have with their skins originate in using too many and too much of various products. Going "all natural" - meaning the djungle version - OTOH won't work in today's society. So there's a balance.

Ah, "low poo" it is then, that fits where I'm at. 

It is a bit of a conflicting time for me, experimenting with this low poo and no poo idea (hair and face respectively) as I came into this forum as a soap maker, originally.  Now I've stopped using soap on my face and have asked my son to do the same- I've started OCM (oil cleansing method) with him as a treatment for his acne.  Ah well, there's still hand washing...

I'm intrigued with the idea of no poo and seeing what happens but I'm not prepared to go through the ugly stage and can't quite believe that the hair eventually cleans itself.  I'd have to see the results on someone else first!  Plus, there was a mention of washing having ritual value, and to this I can relate.  I think many people feel the same way and this may partly explain the importance we place on bubbles/lather/fizz. 

In response to desiring a product that promises image reinforcement or luxury, it would take some effort to break free from a lifetime of advertising... But there is hope :)

Hej Vaxet!  :hi:

I think I know who you are from the Swedish forum (same name right?). I'm Eisot there.
Good to have you join us.  :buttrf:

Hello Eva, well you were the one who told me about this place! so you shouldn't be too surprised  :buttrf:

"Vaxet", by the way, means "the Wax". I first registered on that Swedish forum to post a question on beeswax, after having been given a couple of kilos by a hobbyist beekeeper who I know. I asked for the beeswax for totally non-cosmetic purposes... then ended up doing simples salves from just beeswax and cooking oil, and from there... it's a curse! You sink deeper and deeper into the Making your own cosmetics-hell *mo-ha-ha-ha*

I hate throwing things away. But I have seriously considered buying organic beeswax for cosmetics. I could use the approx. 2 kg I have left for candles instead. The beekeeper who gave the wax to me is a biologist, and he did inform me that although he does not use the chemical himself the wax was probably not totally free from apistan - that's what bee keepers use against bee mites. I have still not decided. But considering beeswax is used for lip balm... perhaps I should. It sounded like he was aware that people used beeswax for cosmetics and that he did not see his beeswax as totally fit for that. Perhaps I should get some other beeswax to respect his wishes.